Not a ton of time today, but something had been nagging at me since last Saturday when Everton upset Manchester United 3-1.
A lot was made how the winning goals for the Toffees were scored by young club products Dan Gosling and Jack Rodwell. Within a day or two, there were already "stories" surfacing that David Moyes "hoped" he'd be able to keep those players.
Never mind the fact that this is a massive jump to conclusions on a pair of players, one who's 18, the other that just turned 20 this month. What do their career trajectories look like? Impossible to say.
What really got me was the fact that since these two guys played well and scored against Manchester United, the British press felt it was their right to start speculation to where they'd end up, since Everton obviously isn't a big enough club, even while it's "a grand old team to play for."
Just where exactly is the ideal destination for players, be in the Premier League or around the globe?
If we're talking the utterly elite, best of the best, players it's a pretty short list -- Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona. That's it. (Sorry Liverpool, you've lost a little luster, same thing for both Milan giants.)
It's also why one of the world's best -- Franck Ribery -- is at a fairly huge club, Bayern Munich, but has been linked to move away from the Bavarian giants seemingly since he signed for the club in 2007.
But let's do a little math? I'll provide the No. 2 pencils and graph paper.
Let's say a "big" club is competing in the league, Cup and Europe in a given season. What's the ideal squad size? A solid core of 7-8 regular starters and a general first team of capable players around, say, 20?
Do the math, that's roughly 100 spots at the "big" clubs in the entire world. Sure you could be part of the squad at one of these teams, but what's the chances of getting off the bench? It seems some players would rather be a surplus part at Barcelona -- cough, cough, Cesc Fabregas -- than carry a slightly lesser club.
Quite simply, there are only so many minutes to go around.
For fun, I decided to look at the Premier League this season, with most clubs playing either 26 or 27 games and two -- Manchester United and West Ham 28. I figured it would be interesting to see how many players at the 20 clubs had logged over 2,000 minutes creeping toward the three-quarters mark of the season.
The results?
Mildly interesting. Overall 52 players have passed the mark, or about 2.6 per club.
For one, would you believe Peter Crouch has played in all 27 matches for Tottenham this season? However, he's not passed the 2,000-minute plateau.
The current league leader? That would be Patric Evra, who's at 2,490 minutes going 28-for-28 in matches, playing roughly 89 minutes per. Somewhat surprisingly, the only other United player to join him in the 2,000-club is Wayne Rooney.
In fact, the top three clubs aren't dominated by a select few players logging major minutes. Chelsea (2) has England stalwarts John Terry and Frank Lampard, while Arsenal only has defenders William Gallas and Thomas Vermaelen.
Further down the table, Aston Villa had six players beyond the 2,000-minute mark -- Carlos Cuellar, Richard Dunne, James Milner, Stilian Petrov, Ashley Young and Gabby Agbonlahor.
Yet Villa wasn't the top club in this study, it was Wigan Athletic with seven. (Titus Bramble, Maynor Figueroa, Mario Melchoit, Charles N'Zogbia, Paul Scharner, Hendry Thomas and Hugo Rodellega.)
The only club with zero players passed the mark? Yep, Portsmouth.
Two clubs only had one -- West Ham (Julian Faubert) and Wolves (Karl Henry).
So did this quick study prove anything? Are there actually more minutes that it looks?
For one, I'll admit it's a little flawed. While 2,000 is a nice round number, it's nothing but arbitrary, even if it equates to around 75-80 minutes per Premier League match.
I still don't think there's as many jobs at the "big" clubs as it might seem to be in the media, who like to link any player with an inkling of skill to the Chelseas and Real Madrids of the world.
And with the stories that came out this week that the Premier League owes over 50 percent of the European club debt, it seems unlikely clubs are going to bring in players to big fees and let them sit at the end of the bench or on the fringes of the squad as an excess part. If you're going to buy somebody, they better get on the field.
Me? If I were a player and had the requisite skill to take my pick of clubs? I'd probably go for a solid midtable club in Spain like Villareal. Nice weather. Nice community based team. The chance to become a local legend. Of course, there's always the chance that a pissed off Ben Kingsley could show up and ruin everything, so there's that to consider.
Saturday:
* Chelsea v. Manchester City -- (Live, ESPN2, 7:45 a.m.) Even without a specially tailored "calf-helmet" (perhaps talk to Adrian Peterson to acquire some of his Nike-designed lizard skin) Chelsea should be fine with Petr Cech on the sidelines. Methinks they'll manage. But how about City? Are we so sure that Roberto Mancini is any better equipped to take City to the next step than Mark Hughes? Sure he had success at Inter, but how much of that was a result of the Juventus scandal? And look how much different Inter looked in the Champions League knockout stages under Jose Mourinho. The Nezzazzuri played to win, looking nothing like the timid squad that was dumped out uncermonisously by Liverpool and Manchester United the last couple seasons. The last few weeks, with Carlos Tevez away and off the boil, City has looked uninspired. How about some of the main players at City -- Emmanuel Adebayor, Gareth Barry, Kolo Toure -- are they winners? Getting over the final hump from also-rans to Champions Leaguers isn't easy. ... Chelsea 2, City 0 (Side wager, I'm setting the over/under of mentions on Wayne Bridge quitting England at eight.)
* Birmingham City v. Wigan Athletic -- (Live, FSC, 10 a.m.) Battlefield England? ... Birmingham City 2, Wigan 1
* Bolton v. Wolves -- (Live, Setanta, 10 a.m.) Let's put it kindly. Nobody associated with Bolton probably figured that bringing on Owen Coyle as manager would result in this -- 18th in the table and sinking like a stone. At least Stuart Holden finally saw the field, except it was in an FA Cup thrashing by Spurs. If Bolton can't find a way to beat Wolves at home, it doesn't deserve to stay in the Premier League. ... Bolton 1, Wolves 0
* Burnley v. Portsmouth -- On the bright side, Burnley looks like it's going down, but unlike Portsmouth it's not Armageddon for the club. ... Burnley 3, Portsmouth 1
* Stoke City v. Arsenal -- (Live, FSC, 12:30 p.m.) Trap game for Arsenal? Stoke isn't a good matchup for the Gunners, what with all the size and overall ruggedness that transpires at the Britianna. One thought on Arsenal? Are the Gunners really playing such free-flowing football that we've come to expect? In spurts, yes, but do we overrate them because of who are they are? Arsene Wenger will know more than I ever will, but is a 4-3-3 formation with the players Arsenal has the smartest idea? Nicklas Bendtner is not, despite his size, a target center forward. ... Stoke City 1, Arsenal 1
Sunday:
* Tottenham v. Everton -- (Live, Setanta, 8 a.m.) The last game for Setanta in America is a good one. Spurs look to have snapped out of their slump, with seven goals in the last week, thanks to Roman Pavlychenko. Funny, remember how post Euro-08 everyone was clamoring for the big Russian, and how quickly he turned into a punchline. He's not a bad player. He's an okay player. If you expect him to do anything more than score a goal, you're foolish. Right now he's producing, so 'Arry ought to ride him. Wonder how much Everton will have in the tank after a tricky Thursday night game in Portugal. Hate to say it, but they're due a clunker. ... Tottenham 2, Everton 1
* Liverpool v. Blackburn -- (Live, FSC, 10 a.m.) Open question to Liverpool fans -- how much do you care about the Europa League? Is it contingent on league position? A door prize? Is finishing fourth more important? Would winning the tournament take the pressure off Rafa? I'd like to know. ... Liverpool 3, Blackburn 1
* Sunderland v. Fulham -- That is a tremendous job by Fulham this week, to go to Ukraine and knock out the defending UEFAEROPA League champions, Shaktar Donetsk. How Roy Hodgson keeps together a team that looks like it would be right at home in the English League Championship is remarkable. Sunderland? It's testament to how many other truly awful clubs are out there that they haven't won since November and still aren't in the relegation zone. Steve Bruce, it might be a good time to start planning a nice summer vacation. ... Sunderland 1, Fulham 0
Last round: 5-6
Season: 137-125
Enjoy the Car-car-carling Cup!
(USMNT fans, I'll have some Dutch friendly thoughts on Tuesday.)
A lot was made how the winning goals for the Toffees were scored by young club products Dan Gosling and Jack Rodwell. Within a day or two, there were already "stories" surfacing that David Moyes "hoped" he'd be able to keep those players.
Never mind the fact that this is a massive jump to conclusions on a pair of players, one who's 18, the other that just turned 20 this month. What do their career trajectories look like? Impossible to say.
What really got me was the fact that since these two guys played well and scored against Manchester United, the British press felt it was their right to start speculation to where they'd end up, since Everton obviously isn't a big enough club, even while it's "a grand old team to play for."
Just where exactly is the ideal destination for players, be in the Premier League or around the globe?
If we're talking the utterly elite, best of the best, players it's a pretty short list -- Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona. That's it. (Sorry Liverpool, you've lost a little luster, same thing for both Milan giants.)
It's also why one of the world's best -- Franck Ribery -- is at a fairly huge club, Bayern Munich, but has been linked to move away from the Bavarian giants seemingly since he signed for the club in 2007.
But let's do a little math? I'll provide the No. 2 pencils and graph paper.
Let's say a "big" club is competing in the league, Cup and Europe in a given season. What's the ideal squad size? A solid core of 7-8 regular starters and a general first team of capable players around, say, 20?
Do the math, that's roughly 100 spots at the "big" clubs in the entire world. Sure you could be part of the squad at one of these teams, but what's the chances of getting off the bench? It seems some players would rather be a surplus part at Barcelona -- cough, cough, Cesc Fabregas -- than carry a slightly lesser club.
Quite simply, there are only so many minutes to go around.
For fun, I decided to look at the Premier League this season, with most clubs playing either 26 or 27 games and two -- Manchester United and West Ham 28. I figured it would be interesting to see how many players at the 20 clubs had logged over 2,000 minutes creeping toward the three-quarters mark of the season.
The results?
Mildly interesting. Overall 52 players have passed the mark, or about 2.6 per club.
For one, would you believe Peter Crouch has played in all 27 matches for Tottenham this season? However, he's not passed the 2,000-minute plateau.
The current league leader? That would be Patric Evra, who's at 2,490 minutes going 28-for-28 in matches, playing roughly 89 minutes per. Somewhat surprisingly, the only other United player to join him in the 2,000-club is Wayne Rooney.
In fact, the top three clubs aren't dominated by a select few players logging major minutes. Chelsea (2) has England stalwarts John Terry and Frank Lampard, while Arsenal only has defenders William Gallas and Thomas Vermaelen.
Further down the table, Aston Villa had six players beyond the 2,000-minute mark -- Carlos Cuellar, Richard Dunne, James Milner, Stilian Petrov, Ashley Young and Gabby Agbonlahor.
Yet Villa wasn't the top club in this study, it was Wigan Athletic with seven. (Titus Bramble, Maynor Figueroa, Mario Melchoit, Charles N'Zogbia, Paul Scharner, Hendry Thomas and Hugo Rodellega.)
The only club with zero players passed the mark? Yep, Portsmouth.
Two clubs only had one -- West Ham (Julian Faubert) and Wolves (Karl Henry).
So did this quick study prove anything? Are there actually more minutes that it looks?
For one, I'll admit it's a little flawed. While 2,000 is a nice round number, it's nothing but arbitrary, even if it equates to around 75-80 minutes per Premier League match.
I still don't think there's as many jobs at the "big" clubs as it might seem to be in the media, who like to link any player with an inkling of skill to the Chelseas and Real Madrids of the world.
And with the stories that came out this week that the Premier League owes over 50 percent of the European club debt, it seems unlikely clubs are going to bring in players to big fees and let them sit at the end of the bench or on the fringes of the squad as an excess part. If you're going to buy somebody, they better get on the field.
Me? If I were a player and had the requisite skill to take my pick of clubs? I'd probably go for a solid midtable club in Spain like Villareal. Nice weather. Nice community based team. The chance to become a local legend. Of course, there's always the chance that a pissed off Ben Kingsley could show up and ruin everything, so there's that to consider.
Saturday:
* Chelsea v. Manchester City -- (Live, ESPN2, 7:45 a.m.) Even without a specially tailored "calf-helmet" (perhaps talk to Adrian Peterson to acquire some of his Nike-designed lizard skin) Chelsea should be fine with Petr Cech on the sidelines. Methinks they'll manage. But how about City? Are we so sure that Roberto Mancini is any better equipped to take City to the next step than Mark Hughes? Sure he had success at Inter, but how much of that was a result of the Juventus scandal? And look how much different Inter looked in the Champions League knockout stages under Jose Mourinho. The Nezzazzuri played to win, looking nothing like the timid squad that was dumped out uncermonisously by Liverpool and Manchester United the last couple seasons. The last few weeks, with Carlos Tevez away and off the boil, City has looked uninspired. How about some of the main players at City -- Emmanuel Adebayor, Gareth Barry, Kolo Toure -- are they winners? Getting over the final hump from also-rans to Champions Leaguers isn't easy. ... Chelsea 2, City 0 (Side wager, I'm setting the over/under of mentions on Wayne Bridge quitting England at eight.)
* Birmingham City v. Wigan Athletic -- (Live, FSC, 10 a.m.) Battlefield England? ... Birmingham City 2, Wigan 1
* Bolton v. Wolves -- (Live, Setanta, 10 a.m.) Let's put it kindly. Nobody associated with Bolton probably figured that bringing on Owen Coyle as manager would result in this -- 18th in the table and sinking like a stone. At least Stuart Holden finally saw the field, except it was in an FA Cup thrashing by Spurs. If Bolton can't find a way to beat Wolves at home, it doesn't deserve to stay in the Premier League. ... Bolton 1, Wolves 0
* Burnley v. Portsmouth -- On the bright side, Burnley looks like it's going down, but unlike Portsmouth it's not Armageddon for the club. ... Burnley 3, Portsmouth 1
* Stoke City v. Arsenal -- (Live, FSC, 12:30 p.m.) Trap game for Arsenal? Stoke isn't a good matchup for the Gunners, what with all the size and overall ruggedness that transpires at the Britianna. One thought on Arsenal? Are the Gunners really playing such free-flowing football that we've come to expect? In spurts, yes, but do we overrate them because of who are they are? Arsene Wenger will know more than I ever will, but is a 4-3-3 formation with the players Arsenal has the smartest idea? Nicklas Bendtner is not, despite his size, a target center forward. ... Stoke City 1, Arsenal 1
Sunday:
* Tottenham v. Everton -- (Live, Setanta, 8 a.m.) The last game for Setanta in America is a good one. Spurs look to have snapped out of their slump, with seven goals in the last week, thanks to Roman Pavlychenko. Funny, remember how post Euro-08 everyone was clamoring for the big Russian, and how quickly he turned into a punchline. He's not a bad player. He's an okay player. If you expect him to do anything more than score a goal, you're foolish. Right now he's producing, so 'Arry ought to ride him. Wonder how much Everton will have in the tank after a tricky Thursday night game in Portugal. Hate to say it, but they're due a clunker. ... Tottenham 2, Everton 1
* Liverpool v. Blackburn -- (Live, FSC, 10 a.m.) Open question to Liverpool fans -- how much do you care about the Europa League? Is it contingent on league position? A door prize? Is finishing fourth more important? Would winning the tournament take the pressure off Rafa? I'd like to know. ... Liverpool 3, Blackburn 1
* Sunderland v. Fulham -- That is a tremendous job by Fulham this week, to go to Ukraine and knock out the defending UEFAEROPA League champions, Shaktar Donetsk. How Roy Hodgson keeps together a team that looks like it would be right at home in the English League Championship is remarkable. Sunderland? It's testament to how many other truly awful clubs are out there that they haven't won since November and still aren't in the relegation zone. Steve Bruce, it might be a good time to start planning a nice summer vacation. ... Sunderland 1, Fulham 0
Last round: 5-6
Season: 137-125
Enjoy the Car-car-carling Cup!
(USMNT fans, I'll have some Dutch friendly thoughts on Tuesday.)
Labels: English Premier League, Prem Picks, Soccer
Not sure how you figure Arsenal are a "premier" club but Liverpool or either Milan club are not. Both Milan clubs have a domestic title since Arsenal won a trophy, Liverpool have a Champions League trophy since then, sure LFC is down this year, both historically and currently they are ceratinly at least at the level of Arsenal, if not above them (but I agree they remain a tier below ManU, Chelsea and the Spanish giants.
Liverpool signs players like Torres and Rodriguez. What big name players does Arsenal sign (as opposed to developing in-house). Not to say Arsenal isn't a great club, but they're not exactly a destination of elite established talent.
You're right, Arsenal hasn't splashed out on big names lately, but the club's name still rings out, for whatever that is worth. Kids around the globe grow up wishing to one day play for Arsenal, not sure that's the case with Liverpool as much. It's perception more than anything else.
There's the idea that Arsenal plays "champagne" football and is a glamor club. That's basically my point.
I think your American worldview is showing. I doubt that there is any part of the world where there are more "kids around the globe" who "grow up wishing to one day play for Arsenal" than for Liverpool. Maybe some parts of Africa.
Liverpool has two things going for it: great history, and dramatic results in cup finals/ big games.